Bf5 ttk: Reddit — Dive into anything

Reddit — Dive into anything

BF playerbase: don’t mess with the TTK pls

DICE: *messes with TTK*

BF playerbase: *stops playing BFV*

DICE:

DICE

After four attempts at lengthened time-to-kill (Closed Alpha 2, Dec. 2018, 5.2, 5.2.2), enter DICE’s fifth attempt — Update 6.2. Despite the ramblings of many content creators and community members, this is not a time-to-kill revert. Update 6.2’s time-to-kill and weapon balance is still markedly worse than the standard set by Update 5.0, and aggravates many of BFV’s underlying issues.

As usual, my compatriot /u/NoctyrneSAGA and I have data presented in pretty charts. Update 5.2.2, or «TTK 0.33» is linked here. As usual, my guide to reading and interpreting the charts is below:

  • The hitrater assumes perfect control of vertical recoil, aimed at center mass.

  • Each picture has four charts are concatenated into one. The top two charts are for aimed down sights fire, and the bottom two are for hipfire.

  • The left two charts measure the gun with full upgrades on the left side of the specialization tree (hipfire upgrades, rapid fire, etc.).

  • The right two charts measure the gun with full upgrades on the right side of the specialization tree (ADS accuracy upgrades, etc.).

  • FTK: Frames to kill. To get TTK (time to kill), just multiply numbers by 16.66. Represented in colors, designated on the right side.

  • E[FTK]: Expected frames to kill. A value factoring in average time to kill and the probability of the 15 round burst actually killing the target.

  • U[FTK]: Average frames to kill. A value that is the mean of all the instances where the gun actually killed.

  • Frequency: The number of times a gun killed, out of 100,000 (100K).

  • None of these stats apply to Firestorm, since guns are now non-lethal in Firestorm, and no one plays it anyways.

  • Note that I’m considering 100hp when talking about guns. Health attrition brings in an entire extra mess of inconsistency.

Synopsis

Is the time-to-kill back to what it used to be?

No.

What did this patch accomplish?

Don’t get me wrong — Update 6.2 is a net positive for the game. Some guns are fully reverted back to their 5.0 strength, and this is great! The rest of the weapons should follow. Anything semi-automatic is effectively reverted to its strength in 5.0 (self-loading rifles, semi-automatic rifles, and pistol carbines), as well as shotguns (despite the community managers saying that shotguns went unchanged, they did revert back to their 5.0 strength, which can be seen on sym.gg).

SMGs, in comparison to 5.0, essentially got +1 BTK after 20m. ARs, LMGs, and MMGs got +1 BTK after 30m. Along with this, recoil was reverted to 5.0 values.

For reference, SMG damage models look similar to that of BF1’s (not good!), and ARs, LMGs, and MMGs have damage models similar to BFV 5. 0 SMGs (also not good!).

Recoil was also reverted to 5.0 levels, and this in conjunction with damage models that are still worse than 5.0 cause a lot of guns to kill slower than they did in 5.2/5.2.2/6.0.

On a very positive note, 5.2 ammo capacities were kept, which is awesome. I’ll genuinely applaud this, as it alleviates pressure from attrition. I for one want to play a first-person shooter where I can actually go and shoot people.

BTK is much better than 5.2.2, so what’s the problem?

5.0 recoil was specifically tuned with 5.0 damage models in mind. Low RoF SMGs were supposed to out-DPS high RoF SMGs at around 20m, with 5BTK extending to 30m to give them a comfortable range to excel in. Low RoF ARs and LMGs were to supposed to beat their high RoF counterparts to 30m, with 5BTK extending to 50m to give them a comfortable area of dominance. Gunplay as of Update 5.0 was very intentionally balanced, and recoil values were meticulously chosen to enable this.

Update 6.2 matches recoil values with damage models they are not intended for, creating a mess. Low RoF guns are badly hurt by 6.2, as they don’t have the damage models necessary for them to have a clear area to excel in. With SMGs having a 5BTK to 20m, high RoF guns still kill quickly to excel at their intended range, while low SMGs are a 6BTK by the time high RoF guns are inaccurate enough to cede a meaningful accuracy advantage to their slow-firing counterparts.

What’s the solution?

Well, you could increase horizontal recoil and spread for faster-firing guns and/or lower these values for slower-firing guns, but faster-firing guns are already bordering upon unrealistic and unpleasant quantities of recoil. I’ve fired an MG 42 in real life — it does not kick as hard as it does in BFV. With nerfing faster-firing guns being a non-starter, there’s only so much room to buff low RoF guns as well, when they already have very low spread and recoil.

The solution is a full revert to 5. 0 damage values, as that is what the gunplay of this game is designed for. In fact, 5.0 damage values were still inadequate, and left room for improvement.

Automatics should have a 15m min BTK range, which allows them to actually kill well in CQB. The 10m 4BTK range is inadequate when many rooms on maps like Rotterdam, Narvik, OP Underground, etc. are more than 10m wide. 15m 4BTK for automatics would allow the low RoF guns to shine more, especially since they have accurate enough hipfire to take advantage of the +5m boost, while faster firing guns don’t. 15m 4BTK would also allow ARs to gain more relevance over the semis, which they desperately need more than ever.

The 20m 5BTK range for SMGs is atrocious, and hurts the low RoF SMGs. The 30m 5BTK range in 5.0 is great, but 35m is where it should be. The +5m bump helps low RoF SMGs clear ~75th percentile engagement ranges better, while high RoF SMGs aren’t accurate enough to really take advantage of this.

To be clear: this is not a revert.

Don’t accept half measures as «good», because this isn’t. Being better than the TTK measures implemented by 5.2 and 5.2.2 isn’t a high bar, because those changes were garbage. BFV 5.0’s time-to-kill is the bare minimum for «good», and as I mentioned above, that still had room for improvement.

Charts

Charts (with other TTK experiments for comparison!)

Gun TTK 0.5 «The Big Oof» Pacific «The Standard» TTK 0.25 «The Big Soak» TTK 0.33 «Appeasement» TTK 0.LOL «Not A Revert»
AG m/42 Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart
Autoloading 8 Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart
BAR (720 RPM) N/A N/A Chart Chart Chart
BAR (490 RPM) N/A N/A Chart Chart Chart
Breda PG 1935 N/A Chart Chart Chart Chart
Bren Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart
C96 Carbine N/A Chart Chart Chart Chart
Darne M1922 N/A Chart Chart Chart Chart
Erma EMP Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart
FG-42 Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart
Gewehr 1-5 Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart
Gewehr 43 Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart
KE7 Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart
Lewis Gun Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart
Lewis Gun (strong) Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart
LS/26 N/A Chart Chart Chart Chart
M1A1 Carbine Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart
M1907 Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart
M1919A6 N/A Chart Chart Chart Chart
M1928A1 (Thompson) Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart
M1 Garand N/A PING Chart Chart Chart
M2 Carbine N/A N/A N/A Chart Chart
M3 Grease Gun N/A N/A N/A Chart Chart
MAB 38 N/A Chart Chart Chart Chart
Madsen N/A Chart Chart Chart Chart
MAS-44 N/A Chart Chart Chart Chart
MG 34 Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart
MG 42 Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart
MP 28 Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart
MP 34 Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart
MP 40 Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart
P08 Carbine N/A Chart Chart Chart Chart
Ribeyrolles M1918 N/A Chart Chart Chart Chart
RSC 1917 Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart
Selbstlader 1906 Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart
Selbstlader 1916 Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart
S2-200 N/A Chart Chart Chart Chart
Sten Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart
Sturmgewehr 1-5 Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart
StG-44 Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart
Suomi Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart
Turner SMLE Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart
Type 2A N/A N/A N/A Chart Chart
Type 11 N/A N/A N/A Chart Chart
Type 97 N/A N/A N/A Chart Chart
Type 100 N/A Chart Chart Chart Chart
Vickers K (VGO) Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart
Wz38m N/A Chart Chart Chart Chart
ZH-29 Chart Chart Chart Chart Chart
ZK-383 N/A Chart Chart Chart Chart

Analysis

You can really see the impact of how matching 5. 0 recoil values with bad damage models impacts the slower-firing guns — weapons like the M3 Grease Gun, MP40, Sten, ZK-383 (514 RPM), etc. now kill slower from 30-75m than they did in 5.2.2. This is not a revert, it worsened the time-to-kill of many weapons. For all intents and purposes, the <600 RPM SMGs are even worse than they were during 5.2 to 6.0.

As I said, slow-firing guns got shafted, while faster-firing guns perform similarly or slightly better, though they did not escape unscathed. Faster-firing guns got enough of a recoil increase where they perform similarly to where they did before at their intended ranges (for the most part). Guns like the FG 42 and M2 Carbine are better from 0-30m, but worse than they were at 30+m. Some guns like the BAR (720 RPM) almost flat-out kill slower than they did before. The Type 2A, for those who are wondering, has reached levels of inaccuracy we haven’t seen in a BF gun since the SMG 08, as it can fail to kill at even 10m. E[FTK] values are similar, as higher inaccuracy and higher damage models can give similar DPS to its inverse.

For automatics, the revert might as well not have happened at all. Time-to-kill is very similar to 5.2.2, but with harder to use guns. For the most part, you have guns that kick like 5.0, but kill like 5.2.2.

Now to the kings of BFV: the semi-automatics. Their damage models and rates of fire got reverted to their 5.0 values. The Assault SARs have +1 BTK past 100m compared to before, but this doesn’t matter, as >100m engagements very rarely happen. For all intents and purposes, anything semi-automatic was just as good as it was in 5.0. You cannot go wrong picking anything in these categories. Any Assault SAR, Recon SLR, or Recon Pistol Carbine is very good.

The files of BFV retained the recoil modifiers and various bullet types for different guns, so it appears that DICE has left room for more potential jarring TTK changes in the future.

Recommendations

With many automatics getting shafted and performing worse than they did in 5. 2.2/6.0, I will be basing my picks around what didn’t get shafted.

Assault:

  • M1907 (RRRR): Probably the best automatic weapon in the game. The recoil increases didn’t hurt it much, as in 5.0, it had low horizontal recoil due to its small magazine. 5.2.2/6.0 hurt it really badly with a terrible damage model, and 6.2 alleviates this.

  • Turner (LLLR): One of the kings of 5.0 and previous, the Turner is back and better than ever, mostly due to its competition being awful. The Turner offers a great capacity and unparalleled midrange DPS in a game where automatics no longer than even good midrange DPS.

  • MAS-44 (LLLR): Pretty much a Turner alternative.

  • M1 Garand (LLLX): Pretty much a MAS-44 alternative. Heavy Load makes it a G43 alternative.

  • G 1-5 (RXXR): Probably the best gun in the game now. Even though it drops to 4BTK past 30m, it doesn’t matter when automatics are pretty awful past 30m now. Its DPS between 10 and 30m is one of the best in the game as well, and its double hipfire specs can make it competitive at <10m if you really want. With low recoil, low downtime, and great (but not best DPS), this gun is for farming servers into oblivion.

  • Literally any other SAR: I think the ones mentioned above are the best, but no SAR is bad, especially in a game of poorly performing automatics.

  • Breda (RRRL): The 4BTK range is still shorter than it should be, but it still has a competitive DPS.

Support:

  • Any shotgun: With the ammo-throwing role being more superfluous, the Support’s true niche is playing up close now, and shotguns allow you to excel in this, as they were reverted to their 5.0 damage models. I recommend the M37 Ithaca or 12G Auto.

  • Madsen (RRRR): The best ranged automatic weapon.

  • Why are you playing this class? Play Assault if you wanna play non-shotgun.

Medic:

  • Type 2A (LLLR) / Suomi (LRRR) / Thompson (LRRR): Since these are solid 0-20m weapons, and 6.2 mostly just hurts >20m damage output, pick guns that are good at their niche. The Suomi offers the best damage output, the Type 2A offers the lowest downtime (fast reload), and the Thompson is a decent compromise between the two.

  • MP28 (LLLL or RRRR): With a large magazine and great hipfire specs, the MP28 is a flexible alternative to the above, especially with its lower recoil.

  • ZK-383 (XLLR): Another flexible pick, due to having Lightened Stock and High-Velocity Bullets.

  • Bolt-action carbines: Use the Jungle Carbine or Tromboncino. Even though SARs and SLRs aren’t garbage anymore, so BACs aren’t dominant, they’re still decent weapons.

Recon:

  • ZH-29 (RRRL): The previous king of long range is more dominant than ever. While enemy Supports can tickle you with 7BTK min LMGs, you can just plug people in the face with two shots and drop them. Bolt-action velocity buffs are nice, but the ZH-29 will always be the ranged king.

  • Model 8 (RLLR): With Trigger Job bringing it to 224 RPM again, the Model 8 is the fastest-killing midrange gun again. While the small magazine and often finicky reload can make it hard to use, it’s hard to ignore how insanely fast its time-to-kill can be.

  • C96 Carbine (RLLR): While the P08 Carbine is a great pick, the C96 is the better pistol carbine for all intents and purposes. The full-auto spec option makes it way easier to use, but the RLLR path giving you both hipfire and both strafing options is extremely good. The P08’s better damage model past 75m is superfluous, as these guns’ velocity will limit you far before that range.

Feel free to ask me or /u/NoctyrneSAGA anything.

BONUS: CHECK OUT SYM.GG

Battlefield V’s weapon balancing, TTK reverting Update 6.2 is out tomorrow – have at the patch notes

Rejoice, Battlefield V players, for update 6.2 is almost upon us. Being pushed out tomorrow, the update is a major rebalancing of the games weapons, largely rolling back the feel of the game to where it was before the deeply unpopular update 5.2 came out in December.

It is also bringing the long awaited, often memed about Tank Body Customisation, which was expected shortly after launch and never appeared.

– ARTICLE CONTINUES BELOW –

Update 6.2 will be rolling out tomorrow morning, 5th March at the following times:

  • PC – 1AM PT / 4AM ET / 9AM GMT / 10AM CET
  • PlayStation 4 – 2AM PT / 5AM ET / 10AM GMT / 11AM CET
  • Xbox one – 3AM PT / 6AM ET / 11AM GMT / 12AM CET

This latest gameplay update will be reverting to a similar, but not quite the same damage model as found in version 5.0. However, Community Manager Adam “PartWelsh” Freeman said “we’re making adjustments to the damage curves to ensure that the damage drop off doesn’t feel as instant or severe.”

An example of what this will look like comes with the FG-42, with the bullets to kill noted from 5.0 through to 6.2:

  • Update 5.0 – 4-6 bullets to kill
  • Update 5.2 – 5-13 bullets to kill
  • Update 5.2.2 – 4-9 bullets to kill
  • Update 6. 2 – 4-7 bullets to kill

Rolling that out to explain all weapons and the BTK across various differences, DICE have created a spreadsheet to check out.

Battlefield V – Update 5.0
Battlefield V – Update 5.2
Battlefield V – Update 5.2.2
Battlefield V – Update 6.2

There’s also been a number of tweaks to different weapons affecting bullet speed and recoil. This will make the Type 2A less dominant, while Bolt Action Rifles will have higher muzzle velocities so that they’re more dominant at long range.

Update 6.2 recoil and accuracy changes

Suomi:

  • Increased vertical recoil from 0.69 to 0.84
  • Increased horizontal recoil from 0.8 to 0.85

Thompson:

  • Increased vertical recoil from 0. 7 to 0.86
  • Increased horizontal recoil from 0.77 to 0.8

ZK-383:

  • Increased initial vertical recoil from 0.56 to 0.7 when using the Light Bolt specialization
  • Increased maximum vertical recoil from 0.644 to 0.805 when using the Light Bolt specialization
  • Increased horizontal recoil from 0.765 to 0.799 when using the Light Bolt specialization

MP28:

  • Increased initial vertical recoil from 0.6 to 0.71
  • Increased maximum vertical recoil from 0.68 to 0.71

Type 2A:

  • Increased vertical recoil from 0.49 to 0.63
  • Increased horizontal recoil from 1.1 to 1.14
  • Inaccuracy while firing in hipfire increases slightly faster
  • Fixed recoil not fully applying in some cases

Type 100:

  • Inaccuracy while firing in hipfire increases slightly faster

M3:

  • Inaccuracy while firing in hipfire increases slightly slower

M2 Carbine:

  • Inaccuracy while firing in hipfire increases slightly faster
  • Corrected modifiers for the two hipfire specializations being too weak

Lewis:

  • Decreased initial vertical recoil from 0. 62 to 0.61
  • Increased minimum vertical recoil from 0.44 to 0.51
  • Increased horizontal recoil from 0.48 to 0.5

Gewehr 95/30:

  • Increased muzzle velocity from 600 to 750 m/s

SMLE No.4 Mk I:

  • Increased muzzle velocity from 500 to 600 m/s

Kark98k:

  • Increased muzzle velocity from 700 to 900 m/s

Krag-Jorgensen:

  • Increased muzzle velocity from 700 to 900 m/s

Type 99:

  • Increased maximum damage from 75 to 80 and dropoff start from to 20 to 30 meters
  • Increased minimum damage from 60 to 66

Type 11:

  • Increased muzzle velocity from 740 to 820 m/s and from 830 to 920 m/s with High Velocity Bullets. This should help differentiate the Type 11 more from the Bren.

And of course, there’s tons of other tweaks and changes being made throughout the game to fix bugs and other things. Here’s the full patch notes:

  • home
  • BF5 Series Fiber optic amplifiers with dual digital readout
    • Dual digital display for present value and set value (BF5□ -D)
    • 5 speeds: ultra-fast (50µs), fast (150µs), standard (500µs), long (4ms), ultra-long (10ms)
    • Interference prevention allows side-by-side installation (up to 8 units) with 9 side connectors0004

    Features:

    Manufacturer: Autonics

    Order

    • Detailed description
    • Specifications

    The BF5 series fiber optic amplifiers are available in single and dual display models. The devices have 5 different response speed settings for more sensitive and reliable detection of fast moving targets and small objects. Thanks to the built-in crosstalk suppression function, it is possible to accurately determine the object with the help of several devices (up to 8 units) connected to the side connectors. Other features include oversaturation prevention, changeable screen orientation, and simple sensitivity settings. Models with red, green and blue LEDs are available for a variety of uses. nine0103

    Expand

    Collapse

    • Models available with one or two displays
    • Dual digital display for present value and set value (BF5□-D)
    • 5 Response Speed ​​Modes — Ultra Fast Mode (50µs), Fast Mode (150µs), Standard Mode (500µs), Long Range Mode (4ms), Extra Long Range Mode (10ms)
    • Display range: 0-4000 (standard mode), 0-9999 (long distance mode)
    • Saturation prevention function: prevents errors due to saturation of received light
    • Reversible display orientation: change the display orientation depending on the installation for easier reading
    • Long-term stability without diode degradation and minimal effect of temperature changes
    • Simple sensitivity setting
    • Multiple Sensitivity Adjustment Modes — Auto Tuning, Single Point Teach (Maximum Sensitivity), Two Point Teach, Position Teach
    • Mutual interference avoidance allows devices (up to 8) to be side-mounted with side connectors
    • Automatic channel setting allows easy setup of multiple devices
    • Various LED light sources available (red, green, blue) for various applications
    • Slim and compact body (W10 × H30 × D70mm)

    Expand

    Collapse
    nine0103

    For orders over 50,000 tr. shipping is included in the price.

    In other cases, it is calculated based on the weight of the item and the region of delivery.

    Delivery of any shopping mall convenient for the customer

    Delivery time from 1 to 3 days in the Central region

    By default, we work with two courier companies:

    major-express.ru

    cargo transportation. The largest, along with Rolf, car dealer in the country. nine0103

    www.dpd.ru

    DPDgroup is an international express delivery service. On average, more than 5 million parcels are delivered daily. Operates under the trademarks DPD.

    These are our trusted partners. However, if you prefer to work with another courier service, we have no restrictions. Just let us know. We will agree on all the conditions and send the order with a full set of related documentation.

    How to pay?

    Payment is accepted by bank transfer. After the order is approved, we issue an invoice for payment. The order is considered paid after the receipt of the order amount to the settlement account of Efficient Production LLC. nine0103

    How to get?

    Delivery geography — all of Russia. During transportation, goods are subject to insurance. Shipping is usually included in the price of the product.

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    Solved: Watch this if you are disappointed in bf5

    May 2018

    — last modified date

    May 2018

    user

    Ancorig

    nine0103

    Community Manager (retired)

    August 2018

    — last change

    August 2018

    You comrades created a topic early.

    Before the release of the game and the real opportunity to play, it’s too early to be disappointed.

    @Inderiol

    It’s almost impossible to completely get rid of this on PC, but DICE is working on various methods of protection. nine0103

    Hero

    May 2018

    Installation is controversial, anyway. But the music does what it takes!
    In general, the dice with the composer were screwed)

    June 2018

    The whiners were so upset that they were not shown a polished video clip that does not display the game itself by 30%. After all, they are so used to being bought with beautiful videos, but they showed almost 100% gameplay of another masterpiece. nine0103

    Don’t worry, they will make a special video for you after which you will buy two BF V.

    Hero

    June 2018

    @Watermelon_ARBUZ

    True bf veterans pre-ordered immediately after watching the video

    Community Manager (retired)

    June 2018

    Opinions may vary, but after the trailer from EA Play, it becomes clear that the game will be just super! nine0103

    June 2018

    Opinions are always different — how many people have so many opinions — but if they don’t fight cheaters, then the opinion is the same — IN THE FURNACE

    Hero (Retired)

    July 2018

    Alas, you can’t get rid of cheaters by magic, @Inderiol

    Community Manager (retired)

    August 2018

    — last change

    August 2018

    nine0103

    You comrades created a topic early.

    Before the release of the game and the real opportunity to play, it’s too early to be disappointed.

    @Inderiol

    It’s almost impossible to completely get rid of this on PC, but DICE is working on various methods of protection.

    September 2018

    plant 10000 admins and let them ban me hand-to-hand)))0103

    September 2018

    that an ordinary player cannot have an S/S ratio higher than 3.0?

    If people were banned on this basis, 20-25% would fall into this list, because you can play BF without killing (4 kills and 1 death, ratio 4.0), and the person is just a good team player (support or medic) who captured while 30 flags

    The game is excellent — in 2 days I already received a token after completing the mission. A lot of flaws and glitches in the game itself, you can’t change the team, the waiting screen while you bleed is a controversial decision, as for me, BUT I pre-ordered the game as soon as it became available.

    On By alexxlab